7月15日，上海交通大学上海高级金融学院（SAIF)副院长、金融学教授朱宁做客CCTV NEWS《Dialogue》栏目，围绕当日在巴西福塔莱萨举行的金砖国家领导人第六次会晤，朱宁教授以独特的视角进行评论和解读。

BRICS Summit begins in Fortaleza

Host: hello and welcome to alive edition of dialogue on CCTV new, I am your host Tian Wei,this year’s Britain summit attended by top leaders from all over the world five emerging economy Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, it is expected to announce to launch a development bank and emergency reserve fund ,some suggested that these entities will enable emerging economies to function more freely in an international system, arguably still dominated by the United state and some other developed economies ,some say that these would pave the way for these newly thriving economies for the future, many of them have called an reform of current international institutions such as the IMF and world bank only to find the process is too slow to in that real change, so how does the international community makes these changes, will the brics countries work together to successfully implement these new initiatips, today we are joined in the studio by Professor Zhu Ning from the Advanced institute of finance of Shanghai Jiaotong University, welcome to our studio,sir,  also we are glad to join the studio in Beijing by Professor M.D.Nalapat from Manipal university in India, we are very glad to have you here sir ,and also we hope to cross over to South Africa to another Professor that is going to be with us very soon, before we go to a discussion with all of you, let us take a look at this background report.

As the excitement of world cup comes to an end, another group of nations from the four corners of the earth will be in the spotlight this weekend in Brazil, host the sixth annual brics summit, president Xi Jinping and other leaders of the brics countries have all arrived Fortaleza ，a northern hub city in Brazil，after the 2008 financial crisis，the brics nations push for global financial reform，suggesting the group was more than just a neighbor，from 7 decades，the International monetary fund in the world bank have an key to world financial stability，and also to funding infrastructure projects，they also play a role in international politics，the united states has buy the largest shareholder in both institutions ahead of the five brics countries：Brazil，Russia, India, China and South Africa put together，at last year of summit in Deben ，South Africa，the brics nations fail to agree on the detail of their own development bank with 15 billions dollar in funding.

It is hope that this year the bank will become a reality，a landing facility for developing nations with around a hundred billion dollars of funding，we have been discussing of forming the bank for a very long time，a project like setting up a bank is not easy，discussion in the previous two summits have been fudfall，and this summit will decide the location of the headquarter of the bank as well as its developing direction of management style，the highlight of this summit is to form Brics development bank and foreign exchange reserve pool.

China now is the 2nd largest economy, India is quiet sizable economy, if Mr. Moody can continue to reform, India could experience fast economic growth in the next few years, you can see that Brics to some extent could help to conquer balance the G3 economy in the future.

Shanghai and New deli both the two leading candidates for the headquarters of new development bank.

Ting Lu:Of course as Chinese maybe I prefer in Shanghai ,but of course I believe that New deli is also a very good place, I think that it is quiet logic to put a headquarters in New deli ,so I believe both of them have quiet good chance .

Trade among the Brics counties has already increase nearly 10 folds in the decade up to 27 billion dollars in 2002 to more than 270 billions dollars in 2012,with the new bank these nations hope to develop connections which could alter the global financial land scale.

Host:Well, Mr. Nalapat and also Mr. Zhu, welcome to our discussion part of the program, reserve fund and also a development bank, these are the two entities proposed last year but only year likely to be the launch of them, before we know any details of these two entities, why they are so important these days, Professor Zhu.

Zhu Ning:I think they are very important in two ways, one is all Brics countries they  realize or they feel the frustration, they have been talking to international organization such as the IMF and world bank, economically they are Brics countries all the emerging economies are making far great impact in the last economic recovery in the global economy, however they do not think that they have been treated fairly in the way to get financial and capital resources ,I think that is the reflection of needs to further boost the economic growth in those countries, they need more organized way to provide funding ,that is one reason why they are very important.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:It is important from another point of view, you know that 2008 is a huge financial shock, the mistake is caused by any of emerging economies not China, not India, not Brazil not South Africa or not Russia ,the mistake was caused exclusively in the US， and partially in Europe，but the entire world pay the price， above 7 trillion dollars worth of assets in Asia were wipe out，because the mistake is made outside of Asia，so it is very important therefore they emerging economies have their own system， so in the sense they are insulated from this kind of policy either on the part of developed economies.

Host:On the other hand，the argument is that wouldn’t that make our world system or global system which is existed since the Second World War the end of it ，more fragmented as sheltered.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:Well world system that come after Bretton Woods was basically a system dominated by the US，because US was the great economy in 1945，and World War II ended，now that ether has changed，the global system has not changed，the world bank and IMF are still dominated by the US and EU,even though for example China has got a such major mistake in international trade.

Host:That is one of the argument for having this development bank or reserve fund，but on the other hand people also worry，Professor Zhu，whether China with its own quarter on quarter economic clout which some use in western media coverage of China，wouldn’t that be a dominated voice inside these entities，would that really solve the problem of having one major country dominating the global or in this way emerging economy entity.

Zhu Ning:I think it is very question I think the proper way to look at it is emerging economies or brics countries all together as a group , is definitely becoming far more important than they were ten or fifteen twenty years ago, so collectively they need a voice and need some way to get their problems solved ,so I think in that way there is no question that Brics countries have to work together if they want they system or the route to change， they have to work together to have a collective voice heard，and among these groups of countries as comes down to which country will take a more leading role，I think that is basically the leaders trying to resolve in this summit ， in  that way I think in term of the sight of the economy ，and also in term of I think the impact of economy on other Brics countries ，I think China does have a unique position and it does not necessary meaning that China will be taking as dominated a role as the US does in the IMF or the World bank, but on the other hand, five countries if they all have equal share in the same entity or in the same fund ,there will be a lot of coordination problems I think it is better in some way that we have a leader of leading country to take a more initiative role in this entity.

Host:Professor Nalapat,what is your preference,50 billion that’s meaning the number these days widely popular in the press coverage, even thought no body knows at this moment exactly what might be the basic fund for this development bank, but 50 billion that is people talking about, each country brings out 10 billion that also been widely talked about,is that the best choice do we need to have a country that is contributing more or have different shares among countries, so that eventually when decision being made ,there can be immechanism.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:Well. I would like to say that obviously it is a very big need for this kind of development projects, so large share would be idea for country can give a large say that is very good ,the only point that we Indian like to say that I do not think the history of US should be repeated by China, and that history has been try to dominate institutions by share economic clout, now we are quiet certain that China leadership swear the 5 principles which include quality, it is not going to follow that road,  for example even  thought the Indian economy is less than one fourth of China, India still face to say why only Shanghai let’s have Deli.

Host:Well very interesting point, so what do you think Professor Zhu coming from China originally ,what do you think about the point ,first of all whether China or any other country who’s going to have the major share if that is going to be the case，secondly can there be mortable choices，if only one choice can be made，will there with that process of making this choice hurt the feelings of the other countries among the brics.

Zhu Ning:I think we are talking about two different questions，I mean when comes down to which country should take a great voice in this new entity ，I think goes down by ，I guess the amount or proportion of capital has been contributed by different countries ，I think that is the way how most of the organizations will be in the run in world ，I guess the question here is what we could have a more inclusive or dynamic way to adapt the role of capital infusion，I think the problem with the IMF and world bank is what is not changing fast enough to reflect the changing in the power of the entire world economy ，I do not think it is necessary that is important way we have China 50% or China 20% ，but it is more about the role that we can have this reflecting the reality.

Host:Can this role be reflectable can some of the previous roles being definitely changed by nature.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:Well the whole point of a new architecture ,this is why India  so strongly support China in this new architecture ,we have been support China in Timmit ,we have been support China in WTO, we have been support China in monetary forum, because they would like different architecture, to the kind of architecture we now have ,in which just quantitative and quantitative then replacing qualitative, there must be a combination of vote ,now some very good initiatives are came from China ,the souk and maditan souk, and even idea for trans-humanism partnership.

Host:Are you suggesting that let’s just translate a little bit ,Professor Nalapat, are you suggesting that countries can contribute to this fund or to this development bank in different proportions when they come to the number or amount of money, yet are you argue even that is the case ,every country among this entity should still have similar wait of their voices, is that which your suggesting, so in the way money really does not speak at all.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:You know I like to say that I greatly admire the China civilization and Chinese culture, which is a win-win culture, so it is not a zero some culture you have in the post war period, it's a win-win culture, so in that situation what we are trying to argue for is win-win mechanism, in which it is not seen that one country is imposing its view to our country, but get the full cooperation with all countries.

Host:This is very interesting because we already heat the debate going on ,which is healthy, that is why we need to have a process of negotiations and discussions going on leading through the great summit, but on the other hand this in the way would influence the time with which the development bank or reserve fund can be established ,of course they can be announced to be launched but when they are likely to be established and function as an institution as these emerging economies wish to afford is another question, therefore ,Professor Zhu ,this is the 2nd  point, in which these emerging economies argue about necessities of having these entities, which is the IMF and world bank are not changing on time, and therefore we need to have something new to encourage the change and bring out the change ,as you may know these messages of different positions would take quiet a wide teams, that still provide efficient amount of reasoning to the establishment of these two entities ,in another word these entities really provide the services and qualities as people hope for ,Professor Zhu.

Zhu Ning:I think it is definitely an important symbol being sent to international organization , then I think they would eventually provide the moqulito fund, not necessary to China at this moment but to some other brics counties even other emerging economies which would jumpstar their own economies, I think it is going to be very helpful.

Host:Is it going to be timely and efficiently.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:I believe it is going to be timely and I strongly believe that Chinese leadership is going to a kind of win-win solution, the point that we have to make with other emerging economies developed, China develops along with them ,because China naturally become a major supplier of not just project but also technology for the last ten years, China has updated technology very significantly, Telecom ,Space and in so many fields ,China is able to compete with the best country in the world,  in another 10 years it is going to be air space, is going to be aircraft in China competes.

Host:The course is there, the ratherist is there ,it seems that the verbal agreement is almost there as well, how to implement these plans, and what might be some of the challenge in hand, are they weekly likely to rival or in the way compete or provide alternative to the already existing international system, gentalman ,we are going to continue our discussion about these after this break.

Host:Welcome back, you are watching alive edition of dialogue on CCTV news,I am Tianwei with me in the studio we have Professor A.D. Nalapat from Medical university in India,in the Beijing studio we also have Professor Zhuning from Shanghai Jiaotong University ,gentlemen as early we are talking about the possible announcement of the launch of two entities ,one is the development bank for the 5 emerging economies likely to be called new development bank, on the other is the reserve currency fund ,but as both of you have argued about necessities of these entities, I wonder whether any of you have further  about some of specific challenges when implementing these ideas for will ,Professor Nalapat.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:The main challenge as I would say would be to ensure that both sides believe in any transaction they getting the better or good deal， that is very important， that thing is very……. for example there is a brilliant Chinese idea of Asian infrastructure investment bank ,I think it is an excellent idea, because infrastructure is a key to economic growth, and China is a exporter of infrastructure, you economic growth because is good infrastructure.

Host:That is difference from this specific united bank or fund we are talking about.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:Yes ,but still that is a very important concept for us India ,for example, we would like to say quiet frankly is that the big still bank headquarter in Deli and Asia infrastructure bank headquarter is in Beijing, so these two institutions in two countries that will develop assistly and brotherly.

Host:Professor Nalapat will never forget about the headquarter of this possible development bank among the emerging economies, what do you think about that option, Professor, this is only the quiet quarter that we are talking about, we also need to talk about how the decision making process is to likely work out ,that’s probably more important ,certainly who is likely to lead for the very first time if it being established this development bank or the fund, and who are the ones going to make their final decision ,what kind of entity do we have, all these are details, nothing has yet on the table known to the outside world, what is exactly likely to happen, do you think what might be some of real challenges.

Zhu Ning:As you have mentioned I think the cooperative government system of the new entities are really important, because I think the headquarter is of course very important ,then the leader the boarder structure and the voting system, I think they all can be very……
 
Host:At the time of projects likely to be invested in.

Zhu Ning:Absolutely ,also have few specific concerns for the new development banks, make it down to people not have some different opinions about which country guess to contribute more so they can have more say, then think about how many project would have to be founded ,how would those decision being made ,there will be even more complicated ,and for the reserve fund, let's say if there were to a financial crisis ,if one or more than one country work by out,what is the priority ,which country would have the say the first, and it there any connections from one country to another or contingence, I think those are all very specific and very important question, but we even do not know the answer, these are huge questions.

Host:Go through ,the very hard whether this entity can be a success or no, Professor Nalapat.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:I think that I look into the evolving situation, and the fact of matter.

Host:That is a very Asia way ,you know that.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:I think that is very good way，to simply reason that I firmly believe for example that India and China are going to have a much stronger and economic relationship we had in the past， much strong strategic relationship， in February for example visa for Chinese tourist and Chinese business man have been far stress to coming two days time，through the several weeks previously，just 15 thousands China tourists come to India out of  97 millions.

Host:I see that you are giving points to do promotion on your countries，but on the point what about these challenges，are there any specific plan have been brought out ，what do you think should be essential elements of these plans if you worry.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:I would like to say that It has to be a matching of the capabilities and needs of different countries ，China has immense capacity and immense capabilities ，and to be a win-win situation for China to become the major source of infrastructure and major source of technology ，the major source for manufacture in the emerging market，these two institutions can do that not by any kind of pressure but simply because China’s  products are the cheapest and the best，

Host:All right，Professor Zhu， your responsible here Professor Nalapat want China to be the major source of everything， but not necessarily as he argue a big voice of everything ，so how does that work from your perspective.

Zhu Ning:I think you mentioned about the Asian development bank earlier，I think it is the same ，as I mentioned earlier there will be， it has to be commeasured or proportionally when comes down to government system  and capital  they have been 22:00  contributed，I think it is very difficult without that alignment ，it is very difficult to allocate the resources and responsibilities， in that way I think that I mean the amount of contribution does stand to certain degree I would determining……

Host:This is very important issue we have been talking about, because the test of whether these two entities going to be successful, it is going to be automat test whether the brics as a concept is going to work, that’s why people has been heavily debating about this, Professor Zhu, you want to add something.

Zhu Ning:Yes, I just want to emphasize that I meaning even though the brics name has coming around for a decade ,people have to realize that these 5 countries actually have became quiet different along their process of development.

Host:What do you meaning about that.

Zhu Ning:In term of the sight of economy, the economic growth speed, the emphasis of each section within the economy, there are a lot of complementarily among these countries, its not longer one side faces all,  these five countries are very similar, so we group them together, they have actually grown into their own tracks, so in that sense, actually I think it is a good way, because this means what is in term of finance, in term of investment, there are a lot of cross-board opportunities that can taken advantage of ,that will be a very solid foundation for the countries to be willing to sit down and talk more collaboratively to work closely, so I think that is the trust that Professor Nalapat will talk about.

Host:You really want to emphasize on that word, do not you? Professor Nalapat, will that be the case ,will every country complement each other without much specific challenges in term of the share of responsibilities.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:We have a lot of confidence in the new China leadership, your premier the firstly visit made internationally is to India, I mean now……

Host:We are talking about the brics country, there are still choose three more out of there.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:As you collectively said no one can deny the fact that China is far in the way the most advanced economy within the brics countries, China is now likely to become the largest economy in the world.

Host:What does that mean?

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:It means that higher responsibility, but it also means responsibility excises the way different from what the US excises after Bretton Woods, responsibility excises more democratic way rather than impose on other people ,I am here sure China will do it.

Host:I hear you point ,on the other hand, we have to move to another question which is also very important ,what is likely to be the role of these entities ,once there being established, how their comparing to the IMF to the world bank even to regional bank, development bank such as Asia Development Bank which Japan plays major role so far, so meanwhile you also mentioned ,sir, as the Asia infrastructure development bank, which is an idea also throughout China some time ago, how will all these entities work with one and another or against one and another eventually, Professor Nalapat, you have any thought about this.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:I do not believe they will going to work against one and another, I think they’ll work with one and another, for simple reason that emerging economies now increasingly realize that their futures are tied together, that in the sense that Bretton Woods System has feeling the modern world ,because for most groups of countries, and the expansive other countries, now what is needed to insist that is not from expansive other countries but enable other countries to win as well ,that is the Chinese system , its win-win.

Host:Right, you are talking more from very conceptive perspective, let me just ask you from more economical financial perspective, Professor Zhu ,you know emerging economies in these days brics countries they all their economic development pace now , Russia for example the GDP growth rate not necessarily satisfy as a result of many reasons, including the recent GO political conflict in Ukraine, meanwhile China’s economy transfer itself, that is the process, India meanwhile is experiencing similar challenges that is having a different degree of impact on the economic growth rate, so is  Africa and so is Brazil, so whether these countries can still be binded together ,that’s still a question being fundament meaning, particularly from the west, can they really be together to do something that going to be fundamentally contributing to the so called world system, Professor.

Zhu Ning:I think from a very simple and economic analysis perspective, if you look at those countries ,even thought they are becoming quiet different, there are two ways that very encouraging them to work together, one is that as they become different, there is a lot of areas they can work together, they would have to work together ,and also as the economy grows, in the past you have to be developing economies seek help from developed economies ,now with the different degree of elements ,there could be a lot of collaboration being accomplished within the same group ,I think this created a perfect opportunity for those countries to work together, this is very good.

Host:Right，final point for you ， Professor Nalapat，very briefly.

PROF.M.D.NALAPAT:Let me give example from Africa, you have massive Chinese investment there， you have Indian investment there， that is improving the life of people of Africa，so also Latin America ，you giving options to people who never had option in the past， I think these new institutions will give a option to people who never had a option in the past ，that’s all the positivity.

Host:Professor A.D. Nalapat ,and also Professor Zhu Ning, thank you so much gentleman for being with us, thank you for watching, I am Tianwei in Beijing.

BRICS Summit begins in Fortaleza